Romans 9 Revisited; Non-Calvinist Views

We previously gave quotes by Traditionalists (also called non-Calvinists; Moderate Calvinists; Biblicists) on Romans 9, in particular Romans 9:13 concerning Jacob and Esau. The previous quotes were by Adrian Rogers, The New Bible Commentary: Revised, Norman Geisler, R. L. Sumner, Steve W. Lemke, Warren W. Wiersbe, and H. A. Ironside.

In short, Roman 9:13 is not speaking of personal salvation, but of God’s choosing one nation over another nation. There is no warrant in this passage to make it refer to whether an individual goes to Heaven or Hell.

Please check out the quotes at the previous post (Romans 9, Calvinism, Traditionalism).

Here are some additional quotes to ponder on Romans 9.

“High above human thought, beyond the scope of human sight, of the human mind, the Omnipotence and Omniscience is ruling, and his rule is supreme, and yet nobody is taken by the hair and dragged into Hell, and nobody is taken by the hair and dragged into Heaven, as he will show more particularly later.”
“The election of the Jewish nation looked to the salvation of the Jews and Gentiles that received the message of God, also the covenants, and the coming of Christ from them according to the flesh. That election looked through them to others and, so far as salvation in heaven is concerned, the Jews that believed were saved, and so far as other nations were concerned he quotes certain parts in Hosea and the Old Testament, the paragraph referring to the ingathering of the Gentiles: ‘I will call them my people which were not my people.’”
-B. H. Carroll, Interpretation of the English Bible, Romans 9. Carroll (AD 1843-1914) was the founding president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Carroll was pretty Calvinistic, but his above comments are noteworthy.

“But election in Romans 9:10-13 is not selection for eternal salvation or damnation. Rather, it is selection for the roles God has called individuals and nations to play in their earthly life.”
-The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, NT Editor Everett F. Harrison, Moody; 1962.

“That entire passage of Scripture we have just read [Romans 9:10-18] above does not even mention salvation. When God chose Isaac to be the head of the nation Israel instead of Ishmael, it was not a ‘matter of salvation.’ When God chose Jacob instead of Esau to have the birthright and the headship of the nation, it had nothing to do with salvation.”
-John R. Rice, Predestined For Hell? No!, Sword of the Lord; 1958. Rice was an influential independent Baptist author and evangelist.

“So by the examples of Moses and Pharaoh, Paul demonstrates that in His sovereignty God shows both mercy and justice - mercy where man’s free will makes it possible; justice where man’s free will makes it necessary. In both cases God acts in a manner true to His nature and without the counsel or consent of anyone outside Himself.”
“Salvation and glory are God’s will in election and predestination, but they are for those who through faith in Christ respond positively to God’s gracious offer.”
-Hershel H. Hobbs, Romans, Word Books; 1977. Hobbs is a past SBC president and chairman of the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message committee.

Concerning Romans 9:21-22, “Such a question demands a reasonable answer. Here Paul argues that the justice and grace of God are displayed in humans, both through the persistent unbeliever (whom he calls a vessel prepared for wrath) and through the believer (a vessel of mercy). Notice that Paul does not say God created one vessel for wrath and another for mercy. It says He endured the vessels of wrath that were prepared for destruction. The expression ‘fitted for destruction’ is in the Greek middle voice and should be interpreted ‘man fits himself for destruction.’”
-Woodrow Kroll, Romans: Righteousness in Christ, AMG Publishers; 2002. Editors Mal Couch & Ed Hindson.

“Paul goes back again into Jewish history and shows God in His sovereignty pardoning erring Israel (v. 14-15) and punishing erring Pharaoh (v. 16-18)…”
“Those marked for destruction are ‘fitted to destruction,’ but it is not stated that God so fitted them, as if God had prepared those vessels for wrath in contrast with those He prepared for mercy.
God does not create people in order to damn them. However, when people behave like Pharaoh, God so deals with them that the inbred wickedness reveals itself in such a way that they become fit objects for His punishment.”
-John Phillips, Exploring Romans, Kregel; 1969.

“Among modern scholars the list of those who see no individual predestination to eternal life or death [in Romans 9] is impressive.”
-John Piper, The Justification of God, Baker Books; 1983, 1996.
He goes on to say the list of scholars on the other side is just as impressive. As most know, Piper is a leading voice for strong 5-point Calvinists. My point here is that in contrast to some Calvinists who believe no one credible would disagree with the Calvinist interpretation of Romans 9, even Piper acknowledges the list of those who do is impressive.

“In the very next verse (Romans 9:22) Paul told of the great patience God showed toward those who deserve wrath. And in the following chapter he discussed the liberty and responsibility of human beings. God’s freedom operates within a moral framework. Human logic cannot harmonize divine sovereignty and human freedom, but both are clearly taught in Scripture. Neither should be adjusted to fit the parameters of the other. They form an antimony that by definition eludes our best attempts at explanation.”
“The grammatical structure of vv. 22-24 is difficult. The NIV has chosen to separate the final clause of v. 22 along with all of v. 23 from the narrative both before and after. As a result, v. 24 would explain that even believers were at one time ‘objects of wrath.’ Even though God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, those who turn to him in faith, both Jew and Gentile, find themselves called by God. Far from being an arbitrary despot, God allows those who believe to take their place as ‘objects of his mercy.’”
-Robert H. Mounce, Romans, New American Commentary, Broadman & Holman; 1995.

“It is important to remember that the preceding verses and illustrations do not deal with individual salvation or the origin of evil, and in like manner, neither do these [Romans 9:22-23]. They actually refer to the same thing, particularly to God’s dealing with Pharaoh. Therefore, the emphasis is upon God’s patience toward evil and rebellious sinners. God’s delay in exercising His wrath is not because of inability or unwillingness, as it might seem to some, but rather to make His power known.”
-Ronnie W. Rogers, Reflections of a Disenchanted Calvinist, Crossbooks; 2012. Rogers’ book has a good, fairly extensive study of Romans 9.

-David R. Brumbelow, Gulf Coast Pastor, August 20, AD 2012. 

Other Articles: 
Romans 9, Calvinism, Traditionalism
“A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation.” 
Books on Calvinism, Predestination
2006 SBC Resolution on Alcohol Use in America
Dr. Brad Reynolds' Book Recommendations on Alcohol
Traditional Baptists (Non-Calvinists) Of 1840
More articles in lower right margin.

Romans 9, Calvinism, Traditionalism

In Romans 9:13 God says, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

Romans 9 is one of the Calvinists’ favorite chapters. They refer to it often and believe it refers to personal salvation. They use it against Traditionalists or non-Calvinists. They say Traditionalists have no answer to this obviously Calvinistic Scripture, or that they don‘t believe it. One joked a couple of years ago about how a Traditionalist tore Romans 9 out of his Bible. We have even been accused of not believing in inerrancy because we do not agree with their interpretation of this passage.

The answer to Romans 9, however, is very simple. When referring to Jacob and Esau, God is not speaking of two individuals, but of two nations (see also Genesis 25:23). God is not saying, I’m sending one of you to Heaven and one of you to Hell.

Romans is quoting an Old Testament passage, not from Genesis, but from Malachi (1:2-3), long after Jacob and Esau were dead. Both passages (Romans & Malachi) refer to the nations of Israel and Edom.

Furthermore, love and hate are used differently than they are often used today. Hate is used in the sense of “loved less.” This use of the word hate is seen in Genesis 29:30-31 and Luke 14:26.

This Scripture is not speaking of personal salvation, but of how God elected Israel to be His chosen people and passed over Edom. For example, my song leader can’t preach and I as pastor can’t sing. God gave us different gifts and talents. Does that mean He hates (in our modern day view of hate) one of us and loves the other? No, God loves us both, but chose us for different roles. It has nothing to do with our personal salvation.

Calvinists have made the mistake of saying this chapter is only about personal election, about whether one is sent to Heaven or Hell.

Both sides will have all types of variations and nuances in their interpretation of Romans 9. But my views presented above are certainly not out of the ordinary.
A few quotes should prove this true:

“God hardened Pharaoh’s heart because Pharaoh first hardened his own heart.”
“All God did was to crystallize the sin that was already in him [Pharaoh]. God did not take a little tender child and say, “I’m going to harden your heart and then I’m going to cast you into Hell.”
On Romans 9 and Jacob and Esau; “God is not talking about two little babies, one born for Heaven and one born for Hell. That’s not what He is saying at all. This is national, not personal.” Later, “God was not talking about salvation. He was simply saying that Israel is going to be His choice, and the descendants of Jacob are going to be His spiritual leaders in the world…Nothing is said here about one twin going to Heaven and the other twin going to Hell.”
On the Scripture, “The vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.” “Well, how did they get ripe for destruction? In his word study, Vincent reminds us that this is the middle voice, which means simply that they fitted themselves for destruction. It is not the potter that fits them for destruction. It is the potter who is long-suffering. It is the vessels of wrath who fit themselves for destruction. God never made anybody to go to Hell. God wants people saved. He wants you saved. First Timothy 2:4 speaks of ‘God who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.’”
-Adrian Rogers, Predestined for Hell? Absolutely Not!, lwf.org.

“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated must be interpreted in the sense of nations, not individuals, which is the original reference in the two OT quotations (Genesis 25:23; Malachi 1:2,3). The nations of Israel and Edom are in view, not Jacob and Esau as individual men, whose names occur as eponymous ancestors of the later tribes.”
“Moreover, ‘love’ and ‘hate’ are not the grounds of election as we understand these subjective feelings…The emotional terms indicate rather a special function and destiny. Judah, not Edom, was elected for progressive revelation in history. This meaning may be supported by the rendering ‘Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I loved less.’”
-The New Bible Commentary: Revised, Edited by D. Guthrie, J. A. Motyer, A. M. Stibbs, D. J. Wiseman, publisher Wm. B. Eerdmans; 1970.

“God is not speaking here about the individual Jacob but about the nation of Jacob (Israel)…The reference here is not to individual election but to the corporate election of a chosen nation - Israel.”
“Regardless of the corporate election of Israel as a nation, each individual had to accept the Messiah in order to be saved.”
“God’s ‘love’ for Jacob and ‘hate’ for Esau is not speaking of those men before they were born, but long after they lived.”
“The Hebrew word for ‘hated’ really means ‘loved less.’”
-Dr. Norman Geisler, Chosen But Free: A Balanced View of Divine Election, Bethany House; 1999, 2010.

“The key to unlocking the mystery of this passage - if ‘mystery’ it may be called - is found in our Lord’s declaration of verse 12: ‘It was said to her, the elder shall serve the younger.’ It ought to be pointed out, and pointed out every strongly, that ‘S-E-R-V-E’ does not spell ‘S-A-L-V-A-T-I-O-N.’”
“As a matter of fact, the whole issue is a national matter which pertains to governments, not a personal matter dealing with the salvation of individuals. This ‘purpose of God according to election’ deals strictly with the descendants of Esau serving the descendants of Jacob! The entire chapter relates to God’s dealing with a nation, Israel, not with individuals as such.”
-Dr. R. L. Sumner, An Examination of TULIP: The Five Points of Calvinism, biblicalevangelist.org; 1972.

“Israel’s election to serve as a chosen people and individual election to salvation for Christians is interwoven in Romans 9-11. Calvinists often do not give adequate attention to the former.”
-Dr. Steve W. Lemke, Whosoever Will, Edited by David L. Allen and Steve W. Lemke, B&H; 2010.

“Romans 9:13 is a reference to Malachi 1:2-3 and refers to nations (Israel and Edom) and not individual sinners. God does not hate sinners. John 3:16 makes it clear that He loves sinners. The statement here has to do with national election, not individual.”
-Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, Volume I, Victor Books; 1989.

“There is no question here of predestination to Heaven or reprobation to Hell; in fact, eternal issues do not really come in throughout this chapter, although, of course, they naturally follow as the result of the use or abuse of God-given privileges. But we are not told here, or anywhere else, that before children are born it is God’s purpose to send one to Heaven and another to Hell…The passage has entirely to do with privilege here on earth.”
-H. A. Ironside, Romans. Quoted in Whosoever Will, Allen & Lemke.

So yes, Traditionalists do have, and have had, an explanation of Romans 9. We don’t ignore it, we believe it and teach it. And it is ridiculous to say because we disagree with a standard Calvinist interpretation that we don’t believe in inerrancy.

-David R. Brumbelow, Gulf Coast Pastor, July 8, AD 2012. 

Articles
Romans 9 Revisited; Non-Calvinist Views
Books on Calvinism, Predestination
Adrian Rogers on Predestination, Calvinism
Paige Patterson on Calvinism
Basic Baptist Doctrines / Beliefs
Unlimited Atonement, Jesus Died For All
Other articles in lower right margin.